Nobody expects the american inquisition

Posted on:February 15 2007

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this today: Bush just issued an executive order that finally will remove the last obstacle and allow trials against 'illegal combatants' where hearsay and testifies enforced under torture can be rated as evidence. Read it again, that's technically nothing other than inquisition. Especially because those trials are allowed to impose the death penalty. Unbelievable. Constitutional state, good bye. Where are our European politicans? Why aren't they saying anything? Where are the american people? Or at least the media?
Strangely, I also only found only non-english speaking media reporting about this in detail (for example Spiegel, TagesSpiegel, FAZ) while english media only report about the executive order without its consequences, like here.





Comments:


"Where are our European politicans? Why aren't they saying anything?"

Ehm... you mean people like... Steinmeier? They are not saying anything because this are OUR trials in OUR war. We can no longer only point to Bush and the USA. Europe, Germany, is fully involved in this crimes. Thats the reason why nobody says something. And the media... a newspaper like the SPIEGEL was an investigative journalistic medium some years ago. Today it is the BILD for the intelectuals.

Riky
riky_ho
Quote
2007-02-15 19:38:00


Sorry but some more comes to my mind I want to write.

Remember some days ago, there WAS a politician who blamed the USA for their military crimes and their secret jails and torturing and so on. It was Putin (wo do not need to discuss his relationship to democracy and human rights, thats not the point). Look at the reactions among european politicians and media... any more questions?

Today I read about CIA flights in europe. There was a report from european parlament that said they had evidence for more than 1200 of such flights (capturing of suspicous individuals, often they are brought to secret jails where they are tortured). More than 1200 in the last years! This could not happen if not the european governments where involved in this! And the reactions on the report was that the politicans where infuriated, not about the torturing and capturing but about this report!

Bye Riky
Riky_Ho
Quote
2007-02-15 19:47:00


Sorry a last post, but this topic really makes me angry.

You ask "Where are the american people?" - I must ask: "Where are the european people?" (I am german)
riky_ho
Quote
2007-02-15 19:50:00


As it isn't enough that America gets a god status in movies and in the minds of the elder for defeating the germans back then, I see a lot of simularities with Europe and America that weren't there before. Like the uncaring atitude, the crazy rules, some stupid lawsuits, and the behavior of people in the streets.

It's (thank god!) not as bad as in america, but we are slowly walking to the same path that the religious outcasts, bandits and rapists are walking (if you remember, a lot of people send to collonise america where "expendable"), very much like australia, only australia was meant to be a prison...

Are we realy that stupid to follow in those people's footsteps? It might sound cowardy, but I think Europe should go its own course and try to make ties with the middle east (NOT Israël, I can't stand everything being in their favor just because they had a though time... My people did too when they where attacked by romans.... ). Better to get to an agreement and have peace, than enforcing our beliefs, thoughts (free speech and all) on the other, wich will eventually lead to war...
Alvaron
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2007-02-15 20:07:00


Alvaron, what do you mean by "bandits and rapists"? Most of the Europeans who colonized America were upstanding citizens fleeing religious persecution or hard economic times in their homeland. They weren't sent, they were trying to get away!
Michael
Quote
2007-02-16 18:37:00


"Where are our European politicans? Why aren't they saying anything? Where are the american people? Or at least the media?"

Ok, let me explain. The reason people aren't making a big deal about this is that it isn't as final as it sounds. Here's why. America's founders actually expected that people like Bush would get into power, and misuse it. In order to limit the damage that they could do, they put limitations on each branch of the government. The president can make all the executive orders he wants, but they won't necessarily be obeyed. When he tries to actually hold one of these tribunals, the defendants will challenge the legality of the tribunals in the civilian courts. These courts, especially the Supreme Court, can and probably will rule against Bush and prevent him from imposing any punishments as a result of these tribunals. They can also order the tribunals temporarily suspended while they decide the legality of the thing. So, its extremely unlikely that Bush's tribunals will ever be allowed to impose a sentence on anyone. Bush's executive order is a terrible one, but it's never going to be carried out by the rest of the government.
NoisyPerlin
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2007-02-18 19:27:00


"the defendants will challenge the legality of the tribunals in the civilian courts"

And how will they do that without any legal defense? And how will anyone else if the whole thing is held at Guantanamo or God knows where else and nobody hears of it?
TheGolem
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2007-02-19 12:27:00


"And how will they do that without any legal defense?" And how will anyone else if the whole thing is held at Guantanamo or God knows where else and nobody hears of it?"

Because they do get legal defense that knows about the trial, it's just that those defenders are at a severe disadvantage in these unfair military tribunals. However, the defenders can make their case to the supreme court, which has the power to overrule the tribunals, and probably will.
NoisyPerlin
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2007-02-19 13:29:00


How come my comment got deleted??
juantar
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2007-02-19 17:31:00


hm, I am only deleting spam here. I don't think I deleted your comment.
niko
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2007-02-19 17:55:00


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